I've seen some articles lately on cancelled/scrapped stuff like the Ice Climbers being in the new Smash games and A Tin Toy Christmas. While interesting, does this stuff really quantify as lost media? There's nothing to really find, or maybe I just don't understand what lost media is all about; I think stuff like that would be more suited on a Wiki like The Cutting Room Floor.
I guess it counts, because we don't even know if ADWS exists, but this is still a pretty interesting topic.
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A piece of media is not just the object: it's the passion, the wonder, the inspiration, the transpiration... oh, screw that.
Part of the problem seems to lie in the definition of "media". Some people consider determined pieces of software (in this case, games) to be "media", but others consider individual assets and pieces of code removed from retail releases to also be "media". Others go a step further and list concepts - such as "beta version", "alpha version" or even "prototype" - to be "lost media", even if they're talking about software that has gone through hundreds of "beta versions". This may be an issue with not knowing what you're looking for.
Let's take Luigi's Mansion as an example. The article focuses in the "beta version" of the game, treating it as a single piece of media. However, the same article mentions the showcase of at least two work-in-progress builds, as well as the removal of other features not seen (or at least demonstrated) in those builds. It's clear that the article deals with more than just a single "beta version", but at the same time the authors don't make that explicit for easier understanding by casual readers. The article doesn't specify which build people are looking for, but instead it focuses in a concept. Now, let's pretend a work-in-progress build of that game eventually leaked. Would people consider the "beta version" to be found even if it doesn't feature any of the contents mentioned in the article?
Being specific is the key. The article about the "Ice Climbers" lacks clarification: is it about the assets and code that enables the characters to be properly implemented in the game, or just about their absence from the final product? What's the condition to call them "found"?
A Tin Toy Christmas - from what I understood, it didn't go very far into production, rendering what would be the final product non-existent. Again, what are we looking for? 3D assets? Reference material? Possible animation?
ADWSS - the article initially implied the existence of a final product that was pulled from distribution possibly before the manufacture of retail copies. However, with all the investigation on the people behind it, doubts have been raised about its legitimacy, and the article was edited to cover those issues as well. An "Existence unconfirmed" category exists to cover stuff like this.
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Just to throw in my two cents, ever since I saw that Ice Climbers article I questioned what made it lost. Because it was just a character cut from the game- and how on earth are you supposed to find the "code" to the character, or get them playable.
Game betas I can understand to a little more extent, but I largely still disregard them because it's like an "in-progress" thing. I do a lot of sculptures, and most of the time I only take pictures of the final product. So does that make every stage in between conception to completion lost? Technically I guess it does, but it doesn't make sense to hunt it down.
I suppose I'm not one to judge lost video game media because I've made several threads about lost "objects" before which some people don't view as media, but at least with the Golden Game Boy and similar items, it's a tangible start-to-finish search that defines an exact item.
So I think what I'm trying to say is video game media is so undefined in what it tries to find that I can't consider it lost. It's like if we broke down the pilot of a show. Instead of just trying to find the pilot itself, you'd be questioning if the storyboard and the script count too, which they don't. We just try and find the finished pilot.
I do a lot of sculptures, and most of the time I only take pictures of the final product. So does that make every stage in between conception to completion lost? Technically I guess it does
Ah, I disagree.
I mean, it just wasn't something ever meant to be shown.
So I think what I'm trying to say is video game media is so undefined in what it tries to find that I can't consider it lost. It's like if we broke down the pilot of a show. Instead of just trying to find the pilot itself, you'd be questioning if the storyboard and the script count too, which they don't. We just try and find the finished pilot.
Exactly. We aren't going to make an article for the rumored script of ADWS.
Being specific is the key. The article about the "Ice Climbers" lacks clarification: is it about the assets and code that enables the characters to be properly implemented in the game, or just about their absence from the final product? What's the condition to call them "found"?
It's their absence from the final product. The creator confirmed they were working at one time but scrapped because all characters had to run on both the 3DS and Wii U, and the 3DS couldn't handle them so they were cut from the game. There is no condition to call them "found", unless you raid Bandai-Namco and search for a development build.
Shouldn't that be a good indicator; that it has to be something you can find, or it at least has to be practical (not doing illegal things to find it, lol)?
Lost/cancelled stuff kind of go hand-in-hand, but this isn't the Cancelled Media Wiki.
A Tin Toy Christmas - from what I understood, it didn't go very far into production, rendering what would be the final product non-existent. Again, what are we looking for? 3D assets? Reference material? Possible animation?
This is key right here, this is key. This isn't a Wiki where we reminisce about cancelled things.
Searching for video game betas and stuff that was never meant to be released just doesn't seem practical. I think the people who make those articles are just making them as a history lesson, rather than actually something to search for. Again, it's not the Cancelled Media Wiki.
Technically. If ADWSS is considered lost media, I guess canceled media counts too.
The thing is, it WASN'T lost media. People only thought it was. I'd argue, however, that it's article deserves to stay because of it's historical significance in the Lost Media community..
Technically. If ADWSS is considered lost media, I guess canceled media counts too.
The thing is, it WASN'T lost media. People only thought it was. I'd argue, however, that it's article deserves to stay because of it's historical significance in the Lost Media community..
Technically. If ADWSS is considered lost media, I guess canceled media counts too.
The thing is, it WASN'T lost media. People only thought it was. I'd argue, however, that it's article deserves to stay because of it's historical significance in the Lost Media community..
Technically. If ADWSS is considered lost media, I guess canceled media counts too.
The thing is, it WASN'T lost media. People only thought it was. I'd argue, however, that it's article deserves to stay because of it's historical significance in the Lost Media community..
Bernie, you hit the nail on its head my friend. ADWS is no longer lost media, but the article deserves to stay for historical purposes.
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I've got another one: video game betas and stuff that was not meant to be released to the public; stuff that isn't practical to find in other words, like you would have to do some illegal shit like break into a developer's house.
I see these pop up on the Wiki, and I'm just like "no"...
I guess people just have different versions of what lost means; like I guess something cancelled is lost, but not in the sense that you can find it, just that it was a scrapped idea.
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To me, cancelled media is lost media if enough of the product was implied to be made (like a few minutes of footage or gameplay), or if it was completely made but was never released for whatever reason (like Earthbound Beginnings before it was actually found). If it was never made at all, then it's technically not lost media.
Post by thatgamingasshole on Aug 20, 2016 12:59:08 GMT
Well...two answers.
First, yeah I would say cancelled stuff qualifies as Lost Media since it basically boils down to media that was lost, as in it no longer or never really was available to the public. I mean, no one ever saw some of this stuff, like unaired episodes of a TV series--so by that definition it's unreleased or cancelled but also sill lost. In my mind, lost simply means not available anymore, not because of rarity or scarcity but because it is somehow impossible or impractical to get your hands on, like the Electric Piper was for years or ADWSS is forever. Hell there is an entire series, Hammerman, which effectively disappeared into the mists of time even though it was aired in its entirety on national television. Little Shop cartoon too I believe. So yeah "lost" is a broad definition which includes cancelled materials or extremely limited release, at least to my mind. That's just personal opinion though.
Secondly, on a more practical level, let's not start making really, really strict definitions of what Lost Media is since we'll start getting rid of huge chunks of the wiki...it won't be fun anymore.
The only stuff I really disagree with is the things that are considered lost because the DVD is expensive or relatively rare. That's not lost, it's just not on YouTube.
The problem is that the vast majority of stuff here isn't truly lost. I used to take lost to mean genuinely unavailable anywhere, like the Cleopatra movie or the episodes of Doctor Who. Now it's extended to stuff that isn't available to the public, even if that just means it's a series that you can't watch on the internet that clearly exists in the archives of the broadcaster. That stuff isn't really lost, but it'd kill wikis like this to omit it as that's most of the stuff of interest to this generation (it seems like cartoons are the most interesting thing to most people here).
I suppose that lost really means "lost to the public" in this context.
I've got another one: video game betas and stuff that was not meant to be released to the public; stuff that isn't practical to find in other words, like you would have to do some illegal shit like break into a developer's house.
I see these pop up on the Wiki, and I'm just like "no"...
I guess people just have different versions of what lost means; like I guess something cancelled is lost, but not in the sense that you can find it, just that it was a scrapped idea.
I'm OK with all the video game prototypes and betas, because they (most of the time) have significance, unlike a 5-second Pivot animation that got lost in a hard drive crash. Like those Dr. Mario prototypes. Those were significant because the game was originally, very different.